Curse

Kaguya · Feb 01, 2006, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Guess what PVP characters can't do?

GO ANYWHERE.

Guess what PVP characters can't do either?

GRIND 20 LEVELS OF XP, SKILLS AND GOLD THEY NEED TO BE COMPETITIVE FOR PLAYER VS PLAYER.

Thank you.

LightningHell · Feb 01, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

FoW armour should be unlockable, as it has true advantages in PvP.

Which are....?

Kakumei · Feb 01, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Guess what PVP characters can't do either?

GRIND 20 LEVELS OF XP, SKILLS AND GOLD THEY NEED TO BE COMPETITIVE FOR PLAYER VS PLAYER.

Thank you.

I don't understand why you think that makes you more 'entitled' to (statistically) worthless perks, such as 15k armor. You grinded? Good job. You aren't special. PvE isn't difficult, it's just time-consuming--and I say this having taken a good seven or so characters through the entirety of PvE.

I simply don't see why, having bought that 15k Wanderer's set for my PvE monk, I am not at all allowed to use it for a PvP character I make. I have yet to see a legitimate reason.

Raxxman · Feb 01, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

FoWs only advantage is you can't see what type of FoW it is (ie Glads)

Its not huge

Kaguya · Feb 01, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Which are....?

All different armor types on FoW look exactly the same, so opponents won't know what armor you are wearing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I don't understand why you think that makes you more 'entitled' to (statistically) worthless perks, such as 15k armor. You grinded? Good job. You aren't special. PvE isn't difficult, it's just time-consuming--and I say this having taken a good seven or so characters through the entirety of PvE.

Important part bolded. PvE char uses much time to create, PvP char can be created within few minutes and be fully competitive. Granted, that newly created PvP char won't be of much use unless it has skills locked, and when starting, doing PvE is only 'efficient' way to do so.

Tho, if one manages to buy this 'worthless' armor in PvE, why shouldn't it unlock for PvP? I don't really see anything against it, although the armor's purpose is being money sink, handing it out to new PvP charas would belittle it's money draining purpose. After all, PvE chars have to buy the armor again after rerolls... tho who sane people would reroll a PvE char with all the stuff unlocked.. More of a GW flaw...

edit: what word is competible, argh.

Vilaptca · Feb 01, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I don't understand why you think that makes you more 'entitled' to (statistically) worthless perks, such as 15k armor. You grinded? Good job. You aren't special. PvE isn't difficult, it's just time-consuming--and I say this having taken a good seven or so characters through the entirety of PvE.

I simply don't see why, having bought that 15k Wanderer's set for my PvE monk, I am not at all allowed to use it for a PvP character I make. I have yet to see a legitimate reason.

Are you saying PvP isn't time consuming? And that it is difficult? Have you played in the random arenas...I can faction farm all day and unlock so many things its not even funny.

I don't see why you think anything you can just buy would be unlockable to an account? I have to buy all my runes...but they aren't unlocked for me...

SpaceGh057 · Feb 01, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally written by Epinephrine
FoW armour should be unlockable, as it has true advantages in PvP. 15k is purely cosmetic. For unlocking FoW, against 15k.
If you can't understand why PvP needs to be on an even footing you are in the wrong game, go gank each other in PK-land.

What are these so called bonuses? Just that the armor type isn't immeadiately detectable by the enemies?
And what is this even footing you're talking about? Is it the fact that PvE have to grind to get the perfect items that are given to PvP? Is it the fact that PvP can now unlock skills with the Faction? Where is the unfairness for those PvP players...
I just don't understand... I guess some people just want everything

Epinephrine · Feb 01, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGh057

What are these so called bonuses? Just that the armor type isn't immeadiately detectable by the enemies?
And what is this even footing you're talking about? Is it the fact that PvE have to grind to get the perfect items that are given to PvP? Is it the fact that PvP can now unlock skills with the Faction? Where is the unfairness for those PvP players...
I just don't understand... I guess some people just want everything

Being able to hide your armour IS an edge. So is having more than one set,and being able to swap pieces depending on what you face. So is having items like the Denravi Helm, which can only be used by a PvE toon, and cuts hex duration in half.

You don't get wanting a level playing field? You actually think it is at all acceptable that there are obvious biases?

In sports there is no adantage for having played longer - you don't get to use a smaller net in hockey because your team has been around longer. Advantages are eliminated by swapping ends, by standardised pucks and rinks and so on - making a fair competition. Time invested has nothing to do with it, it is about skill.

In most competitive games there is no advantage, other than skill. You don't get 2 extra pawns for having won last year's chess championship, or a special queen able to jump like a knight. You have the EXACT same starting setup as your opponent, to make it a competition.

Havng PvE gear (providing an advantage - not dyes, 15k vanity armor and stuff) that cannot be unlocked in PvP is a bias, and makes it an unfair competition. Instead of reducing PvP to skill, which is what it should measure, it instead also forces playing PvE to get the items which provide an advantage. Believe me, there are many items from PvE I'd like unlocked for PvP characters - and I own them too, many of them, but hate having to roll a PvP character, swap the item over, put it back in storage, delete and reroll. Some aren't even available in PvE anymore, yet ANet leaves htem around instead of deleting them. +15% always swords with no penalties, Zealous blades without tthe -1 energy regen and other items from the early game do not belong. Worse yet, some items simply can't be used effectively by PvP characters, as they can't customise them.

Items that aren't available in game now should be deleted; items that provide an edge in PvP should be unlockable. You want dyes, hairstyles etc, go ahead, restrict that to PvE. I don't care if every PvP warrior looks exactly alike, same weapon, no dyes, same height and so on - provided they have a fair environment.

Lasher Dragon · Feb 01, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I think that the 15k armors should be unlockable for PvP use, however, I disagree that faction should be the unlock method. As has been posted, I think when you craft a specific armor in PvE, you should get the "Item Unlocked" pop-up, one for each piece for each class. Want FoW armor for your PvP monks? Do the same as anyone else has to do and grind your ass off to get it. Once unlocked though, you should be able to just make any PvP monk w/FoW armor.

That's my opinion anyway, and I don't even play PvP.

Orbberius · Feb 01, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

Are you saying PvP isn't time consuming? And that it is difficult? Have you played in the random arenas...I can faction farm all day and unlock so many things its not even funny.

That's because RA is just a bunch of PvErs running around with their 15k armor, or PvPers testing out new, potentially crappy builds. It's not at all representative of what the actual, honest-to-goodness competitive PvP in this game really is.

NatalieD · Feb 01, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

If you give PvP characters 15k armor to unlock via faction, you better give me the ability to get whatever weapon/focus/shield etc from a huge menu for free, like a PvP character. And while you're at it give PvE characters a huge trader that has a set price on every single maxed out weapon mod in the game so we can buy those just as easily as a PvP player can, 'eh?

Hey, it sounds like a good idea to me. I'd even enjoy PVE a lot more if that were the case. And yet, somehow, I think a lot of PVE-lovers would complain that it makes it too easy.

Which is the most frustrating part of this whole thing, really. People complain that PVP characters don't have to do the same work that PVE chars do, at the same time as they demand that PVE chars not do any less work. All I want is to have more cosmetics to play around with on my (PVP) characters, but this can't happen because people who for some reason want to grind their butts off to get those cosmetics also want me to grind for them. What did I ever do to them that they get so upset at the thought of me having a little stylistic variety to play around with?

Quote:

I think you get my point. PvP only characters already have so many perks for their characters it's not even funny.

No, I don't get your point at all. Why does it have to be seen as some kind of competition between PVP and PVE characters?

xxSilhouette · Feb 01, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

/notsigned

I think that those who go through PvE deserve to have the option of 15k armor, and only those.

Como Fort · Feb 01, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Arrogant PvP people who want everything annoy me...

xxSilhouette · Feb 01, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Arrogant PvP people who want everything annoy me...

same here.

Epinephrine · Feb 01, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Arrogant PvE players who think that spending time at something makes them better irks me.

I think that faction should do much more. Some people hit the faction cap ages ago. Why does PvE unlock PvP anyway, and not vice versa? Screw it, PvE players get the easy ride, playing and magically they get PvP unlocks? Yet a PvP player can unlock everything and get nothing for PvE? Who gets everything by that logic? PvE gets the benefit of an unlock whenever they get an item, but I don't see an item appearing every time I get an unlock.

Once you hit the faction cap you should be able to trade faction for gold, PvE items, skillpoints and anything else. I'd like to cash in my faction for some Ecto please. PvE players think it isn't workk, that we don't earn faction? It's as much "earning" it as they "earn" a 15k armour.

Then again, I love beating a guy in FoW with a fellblade with a toon I just rolled up. Skill over time spent, boyo. In a way that'll never get dull, taking some simple build with the gear I've unlocked and polishing the floor with a stuffed-shirt arrogant PvEer. Nothing makes me laugh like the guys who are "LF stance tank for TA group". You go, guys, tank it up!

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxSilhouette

/notsigned
I think that those who go through PvE deserve to have the option of 15k armor, and only those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxSilhouette

I am on ring of fire on my warrior and am just having trouble finding a good group, two of my characters are stuck at thunderhead keep.

Ooh, the voice of experience. Yeah, you obviously have a grasp of the amount of grind in a full unlock.

For the record, one of those suggestions was that buying it in game unlocks it in PvP. Frankly, I think that's absurd - if it has an advantage, make it faction-purchaseable, or accessible. Go ahead and restrict the order of unlocks if you want - you need to unlock a minor rune to get a major, you need to unlock the major to get the superior. Maybe require unlocking all warrior skills to get the warrior FoW unlock, but it should be possible. Items like -5 energy/+15% swords, negative energy foci, Denravi Helms and so on should all be in the equipment menu. The idea that competition should be unfair and biased to those with more time to spend is absurd.

Either make the PvE and PvP bond closer, allowing unlocks both ways - spending faction for PvE items for example, and allowing all PvE items to be unlocked in PvP, or separate the two - no more PvE characters earning "unlocks" - fight with what you "earned", and I'll get PvP only unlocks in PvP. As it is, PvE players get a "free ride" into PvP, and not vice versa.

Poison Ivy · Feb 01, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Fighting your char from Pre-Searing and spending money on runners to Grotto and Granite is only part of the 15k price. Thats my point of view. So PvP chars do NOT deserve the option of having 15k armor. *Flees from a horde of angry PvPers*

Epinephrine · Feb 01, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I'm fine with the "PvE gets PvE only stuff" mentality, if you'll give up PvP unlocks for PvE play. Otherwise, don't whine about it - you get, for free, the option to use everything you unlock in PvP, plus the stuff you can buy/find that isn't unlockable. Otherwise, reciprocate. It takes lots of work to hit 400,000 faction, for example. Earned 5000 or so last night, but that was with a 30 win streak in TA.

You don't even know a proposed price for it and are against it, but believe it or not, you aren't special if you have 15k. Anyone can get it, easily. Heck, I happen to play PvE too, and don't have any 15k, despite having two full accounts of toons, piles of gold and materials, and so on. Why? Because I could care less about vanity items.

At a price of 10,000 faction per piece it wouldn't be cheap armour. 50k faction takes a while to build up. Why do you think that one form of play should get rewards while the other doesn't, and that one style of play should unlock for the other, but not vice versa? Hmm?

Shadowspawn X · Feb 01, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Arrogant PvP people who want everything annoy me...

Yeah they choose to ignore half the game and beg,beg, beg for everything on the other side because as if they are entitled to just pick out what they want to do and get everything handed to them. Just roll up a real toon and get your armour guys whats the big deal?

What they need to understand is armor does not unlock. I got FoW armor on one charactor if I want it on another charactor I must start the process over because it is unique to the charactor that crafts it, its not "unlockable" and doesnt transfer to my other charactors pvp or pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

PvE'rs can do the /rank emote. Why can't PvP'rs use 15k armor after unlocking it in PvE?

Also what people need to accept is there is no such thing as a PvE only toon, when you create a charactor it gives you two choices.

1) PvP only toon
2) PvP and PvE toon. Im calling it a PvPvE toon

The reason PvPvE toons can emote is that they are PvP toons also, I earned my emote with my PvPvE toon, so why shouldn't it emote?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

People complain that PVP characters don't have to do the same work that PVE chars do,

They don't earn anything , because faction is a charity givaway for pvp skills. Two guys on the same team in randoms on a PvP only toon , one a PvPvE toon, say they have 10 consective wins in RA, thats 100 faction a match , and a 100 XP per match. They now have 1000 faction and a 1000 XP after 10 matches on the same team. The PvP only toon bounces off on his merry way to go buy a skill, yet the PvPvE toon needs 15,000 XP to get a skill so he must win 150 matches for one skill point! And the PvP community is still beggin, come on they handing the game over to you guys on a silver platter!

toastgodsupreme · Feb 01, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Arrogant PvP people who want everything annoy me...

Arrogant PvE players who don't want to share.

I will say that I've put in about 1000 hours into bring up PvE characters, I've beaten the game 3 times, in fact for a VERY long time, I was totally against PvP.

The free beta weekend brought me into PvP completely though.

I have deleted 1 of my 4 PvE chars to play as a PvP only char. I would like more armor options. Why NOT? Because you're selfish. I have around 500 plat in storage. Why can't I have 15k armor for my PvP toons? All my PvE toons have it.

Why can't my pvp character look just as sassy as their pve counterparts? Maybe we should get our OWN special looking armor. A big "fck you" to you pve-only people.

xxSilhouette · Feb 01, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Ooh, the voice of experience. Yeah, you obviously have a grasp of the amount of grind in a full unlock.

For the record, one of those suggestions was that buying it in game unlocks it in PvP. Frankly, I think that's absurd - if it has an advantage, make it faction-purchaseable, or accessible. Go ahead and restrict the order of unlocks if you want - you need to unlock a minor rune to get a major, you need to unlock the major to get the superior. Maybe require unlocking all warrior skills to get the warrior FoW unlock, but it should be possible. Items like -5 energy/+15% swords, negative energy foci, Denravi Helms and so on should all be in the equipment menu. The idea that competition should be unfair and biased to those with more time to spend is absurd.

you seriously need to chill...

and for the record i have played pvp only, i just prefer PvE over it.

I agree that PVP should unlock things in PvE as well. I never said there was anything wrong with people who like PvP only, I just don't think that they should have the ablility to use faction points (that they get just from kills) for armor.

You really didn't have to go off on me like that though.

These forums are meant to post your opinion, not to scream at people for having a different one then you.

EDIT : heres an idea, something i notice when making a PvP character is they don't even get all of the options of armor, for example the necromancers can choose scar patter, bonlace or tormentors, but i dont see necrotic or fanatics on there. I do think that all of these should be options for PvP.